Warning: Contains major spoilers for You Season 4 Part 2
What happens when “Gaslight, Gatekeep, Goldberg” meets “Manipulator, Mansplainer, Montrose?” GoldRose happens, that’s what! Joe Goldberg (Penn Badgley) and Rhys Montrose (Ed Speleers) are one of the more interesting and shippable interactions in You’s fourth season.
Only the chaotically upbeat Rhys could provoke the usually stoic Joe into a full freakout. Their shippable frenemy energy is an endless source of GIFs, clips, fanart, fanfiction, and more. Their chemistry alone could rival that of his actual love interest, Kate Galvin (Charlotte Ritchie).
But what is the true nature behind Joe Goldberg and Rhys Montrose's relationship?
In Cosmopolitan's exclusive chat with Penn Badgley, he spills the rest of the tea about Part 2 and deconstructs the Joe-and-Rhys dynamic.
You season four has been gaslighting us on main
Rhys Montrose was initially set up as—if we go by an anglophilic literary comparison—the Moriarty to Joe’s Sherlock. Their antagonistic banter was engaging, entertaining, and enticing. When Joe threatened with, “I decide if the line gets crossed, when and why,” Rhys excitedly replied, “Oooh, I never took you as a top!”
Penn: “I probably had the most fun in the scenes with Rhys, played by Ed Speleers…given that he’s not real.” (Laughs)
Joe is an equal opportunity stalker
Spoiler alert! Our main creeper has once again created a parasocial relationship with someone—complete with a specially curated box of stolen personal items. It turns out that the version of Rhys that has been pestering Joe was not, in fact, the public figure running for office. He was the alter-ego manifestation of repression (Joe’s “dark side”) and obsession (fanboying over the real Rhys Montrose).
Penn: “It’s more like Joe interacting with himself, being frustrated by himself, [and] being horrified by himself. So, in a way, it was just the most fun [that] I’ve ever had with Joe.”
We haven’t seen this much bromance since the second season
The fake Rhys possesses an obnoxious swagger and a knack for effectively invading Joe’s personal space much like the gone-but-not-forgotten Forty Quinn (James Scully) who brought the party wherever he went.
Penn: “It was sort of similar to the scenes with Forty in season two. Love’s brother? It was definitely an iconic role.”
The danger that lurked ahead was his edge lord alter-ego
Joe Goldberg was a child of turbulence who encountered traumatic experiences that warped his idea of relationships. (But that doesn’t excuse all the murder!) This season, he desperately sought redemption and latched onto his admiration of the real Rhys Montrose because the political aspirant shared a similar troubled past but eventually turned his life around. So Joe is full-on projecting on this guy in hopes that he could also change for the better.
Penn: “I loved [the plot twist!] The Fight Club-esque turn to me was like the only place the show could go [without] sort of [collapsing] on itself. It’s a tough concept given [that] Joe [is a] hard guy to keep reinventing.”
“It’s me, hi. I’m the problem, it’s me”
“Anti-Hero” by Taylor Swift was made for Joe Goldberg and a fitting song to close out the season. Whenever Joe is trapped in a corner, he experiences a moment of moral clarity but then immediately backslides once he gets away with the bad thing. So most of the time, Joe is in major denial of his faults and is hypocritical towards guys similar to him.
Penn: “I think when Joe is with another man and especially when that man is [also] violent and capable of murder, he’s the most uncomfortable because he’s being reflected back to himself. When Joe is being reflected back to himself, he does really crazy stuff. And so it just ends up being fun, sometimes incredibly troubling and challenging but it’s a lot of fun for me.”
You season four was all about “self-love”
Can you ship a character with their other self? Homicidal tendencies aside, fake Rhys served as a comfort character for Joe who just wanted to be loved and accepted. Rhys’ anguished declaration towards the end wouldn’t be out of place in a romantic film with lines like, “All I ever wanted was to make you happy,” “We can do anything together. I’m alive for you,” and yes, he also screamed, “I love you!”
Penn: “What I love about Rhys is that, in a way, he represents the inner child. Not all the time! But at the end when he’s telling Joe that he loves him. He’s like, well, ‘I love you, why can’t you love me?’ I think that’s the inner child in all of us yearning for self-acceptance and self-love. I think, in some ways, it’s a beautiful universal concept. On top of that, there’s just a lot of comedy so it was just fun.”
If Joe should get with anyone, for the safety of everyone else, he should just end up with himself.
What’s next on Joe’s gaslighting tour?
Now that Tom Lockwood (Greg Kinnear) is six-feet-under and his daughter Kate has officially taken over the evil conglomerate, Joe has secured the bag as a trophy boyfriend. And of course, he’s also fully integrated with his dark side (imaginary Rhys). In broke mode, he got away with all the crimes he’s committed throughout the series. Imagine what he could pull off now that he’s part of the international elite.
Penn: “I think it will be interesting to see Joe having different circumstances and infinite resources for the most part. He seems to be doing really well at [being] ‘Poor Joe.’ Now with money, who knows? Honestly, I am just as interested—probably more interested than you—because I have to do it.” (Laughs)
Will Joe Goldberg ever get his comeuppance or will he continue to exploit his white male privilege to get away with everything?
You season four (part two) is now streaming on Netflix. Don’t forget to watch the full spoilerific video interview with Penn Badgley (coming soon!) to hear him talk about the fourth season.
